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Montag
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Montag


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Join date : 2008-04-20

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PostSubject: God   God EmptySun Jul 06, 2008 7:14 pm

God exists. No he doesn't. Well, maybe he does.

Discuss.
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Talkatoast

Talkatoast


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PostSubject: Re: God   God EmptySun Jul 06, 2008 10:04 pm

How random! In any case, I'm not going to judge. All I can say is what science has given me. I think a better debate would be whether or not the Bible's readl.

I don't believe in the Bible. Plain and simple. If the Bible were true from the start, it wouldn't have so many versions. You don't see any of Ray Bradbury's books being rewritten for time's sake. You don't see history being rewritten for time's sake. They spoonfeed you the same garbage about Abe Lincoln has they did decades ago! They tell you he's a great, honest man, even though if you look behind the scenes, he lied and had many mistresses. He didn't care about the slaves. He made his Emancipation Proclamation out of selfish reasons.
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Paper Rabbit

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PostSubject: Re: God   God EmptyMon Jul 07, 2008 4:47 pm

Well, I believe myself to be an open minded person and therefore probably do no good to such a controversial discussion.
Personally:
I believe in a higher being because there has got to be more to this life than humans and our puny brains... I don't need a human to prove, or disprove, this to me as I know this in my soul and it is something very personal pertaining to each individual. I don't like putting a label on what I am because I don't believe the same way other "Christians" believe, or other catholics, or (insert own religion here).

The bible has different versions because it has been translated many times. It is a way to make modern day society understand the language used in it as we as make it more... well, modern. Of course religion may fuck it up by allowing humans who are believed to be in higher pedestals than others to interpret the scriptures in their own way therefore putting a worldly twist to it. Also, it might not necessarily be as "God written" as it is claimed to be, more of a historical literature which also shows the religious believes of the so called apostles who wrote it.
Many books get translated as well and just because there is only have one version of a book, it does not prove it "real". Imagen "something wicked this way come" telling us how to live....yikes! (Not putting down Bradbury as I am sure he is an excellent writer and have heard great things about the book from Montag Smile.

Anyway, the question is something that each individual either believes or they do not and depending how much of a strong-minded person you are, no one else can force-feed your soul, only you can do that.

There, my two cents.


Last edited by Paper Rabbit on Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Montag
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PostSubject: Re: God   God EmptyMon Jul 07, 2008 5:15 pm

As an agnostic, I believe there is a possibility of God, and there is a possibility of no God, and science may in fact point to the fact that there is no feasible way to determine either to be true.

That is why atheists pride themselves over Christians or other religious persons, belittle them and boast of their knowledge that God does not exist, employing their logic to contradict bible verses etc.

Herein lies the problem: first, and most importantly, the bible has no final say on whether or not a God or deity exists, only that one exists given its own rules and laws. Whether or not the bible can be disproved or found to be contradictory has no true bearing on the possibility of a deity's existence.

In a way, I find atheism to be a religion, because it entails having "faith" that God does not exist, since there is no logical way to disprove the possibility. Thus, it requires belief in something that isn't necessarily proven through science or physical evidence.

Additionally, even if the possibility of a God were disproved through clear and plain logic, that logic is human, and by nature the proof must therefor be flawed, as the nature of human beings is inherently flawed. By limiting something as grand and beyond humanity to words, verses, human concepts and ideas is insane. The nature of spoken language is so incredibly limited (and this coming from a writer) that it cannot possibly capture the concept of "God."

The human mind is also limited, in its ability to see a small spectrum of the wavelengths that are out there, its ability to reason and comprehend, etc. To take that mind and apply it to an unlimited power just doesn't seem to fit mathematically. Then again, even this line of reasoning can be subject to the same scrutiny.

As for which direction I lean (as I am human), I tend to believe there is a God, or at least some beginning will to the universe, if not simply because the universe has a better chance of not existing. Natural process, by observance, seems to follow a path of least resistance, to occur in a "natural" form. But what is natural and non-resistant about nothing becoming a universe? Wouldn't it be much more natural for nothing to continue to be nothing?

Since the fact the universe cannot be proven not to have existed for eternity (though this seems to ignore the natural life-cycle of living and dying, or decomposing, of existing things), my theory is just a theory.

Quote :
I don't believe in the Bible. Plain and simple. If the Bible were true from the start, it wouldn't have so many versions. You don't see any of Ray Bradbury's books being rewritten for time's sake. You don't see history being rewritten for time's sake. They spoonfeed you the same garbage about Abe Lincoln has they did decades ago! They tell you he's a great, honest man, even though if you look behind the scenes, he lied and had many mistresses. He didn't care about the slaves. He made his Emancipation Proclamation out of selfish reasons.

I think PR was right about the translations thing; which sort of backs up my "language is unreliable" theory. But as for the Abe Lincoln reference, I agree that an ideal often and dangerously becomes larger than a human being simply by the way idealism operates. Lincoln and many other rich powerful people from early America who may have enacted good laws were not necessarily good people, many owned slaves and were wife beaters etc. as a product of their era.

To quote Dave Chappelle quoting Thomas Jefferson:
"All men shall be created equal, (to his slave) shut up, nigger! "

So, that's pretty much my long-winded take on it Smile
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Paper Rabbit

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PostSubject: Re: God   God EmptyMon Jul 07, 2008 5:22 pm

Talkatoast wrote:

They spoonfeed you the same garbage about Abe Lincoln has they did decades ago! They tell you he's a great, honest man, even though if you look behind the scenes, he lied and had many mistresses. He didn't care about the slaves. He made his Emancipation Proclamation out of selfish reasons.

I totally agree with what you said about Abe. I think it is just another illustration of how we should not idolize human beings and hold them higher standards than we are able to meet.

Smile
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Talkatoast

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PostSubject: Re: God   God EmptyMon Jul 07, 2008 5:59 pm

Mostly, I question the Bible because some of the stuff it says is just ridiculous.

I do believe in a higher power, but not in "God." As strange as this sounds, I believe we're some sort of experiment that another, higher life force created. I also believe in being born again. I wouldn't exactly call it reincarnation--but call it what you want. We each have a sense of self, a brain that makes us who we are. If we are born as one individual with a brain that encompasses our personality, why can't we be born as a different individual several years after we pass on? It's confusing to explain my logic, but you get the idea, right?
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PeskySaurus

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PostSubject: Re: God   God EmptySun Aug 17, 2008 5:37 am

Samurai Lincoln is not to be blasphamied on this internet. lol
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